animal welfare, spiritual dimension of life with chickens

Why am I keeping chickens ?

There is actually quite a sort answer to it: it is an expression of where I am at in the process or becoming aware and feeling.

When people are ready for something, they are ready, or predisposed, or interested, or resonating, – then and not before. The interest for a certain way to feed yourself has gotta come from your smarts, your caring, your own nature and awakening to a new level of sentience. I was talking to some people this afternoon in March of 2015 – telling them that I don’t really know how to get people interested, magnetized or fired up about the chickens, the garden and, of course, the wonderful eggs that become available for our bodies nourishment.

However, I did ask myself: why am I doing this ….this “chickens in the garden thing” –  other than that I love it – still love it after 4 years of often hard work, or “work getting a little old” and sometimes heart breaking times. I love birds in general, be around birds, listen to birds, observe birds, love seeing them foraging all over the garden, love listening to their sounds, love seeing them so healthy and well. …but I could have been a bird watcher then.

I presently “keep chickens” for the sake of the animals who provide us with a precious food, eggs – as long as we eat eggs and just about all our guests eat eggs … so for animal welfare reasons one could say, with the added benefit of deep litter compost, but there is more to it.

I have a vision and a dream within this dream we live in, a belief if you will: by keeping these chicks-201407-september_1367 healthy chickens, allowing them a chicken-worthy life free ranging in a garden, scratching for bugs, with a safe spot to roost and lay their eggs, by doing that –  a template is fortified, a way of life is given strength….a way of life in which animals who are living with humans for whatever reasons,  are treated with respect, are cared for, seen and loved – a quantum entanglement with this, rather than some other worlds. There is beauty and communion and magic and health and grace and flow …..

The is a  way of life where animals  are recognized, through their intimate observation and care, from eggs to old age,  as expressions of the life force and consciousness that runs through all things.

One can hear the vegans already (nvm what happens in the harvesting of vegan foods etc) about it being unethical to “keep” any animals for any type of food or human “use” purpose. I am not going there – however, even in free range flock who gets to live out their lives, there are 2 issues that will not go away:

The rooster issue:

When allowing a hen to hatch a clutch of eggs, over time, roughly 50% will be male. What will you do with them? There are space, flock health and financial issues. Currently, the rooster issue gets handled like this: when a broody gets a clutch of eggs, I tell the “to be chicks” what life they will have, and if they are roosters…that for now, once their mother is done with them and they are about 3-6 months old, most of them will go to the feed store, where some get adopted for flocks, some get taken and raised to be eaten. They know what life conditions await them….and I tell them…don’t hatch of that is not ok with you ..because I simply cannot keep you all. And – once I started this – plenty of them have not hatched. The mind wants to find some other explanations…like heat, age of the hens or some other such reason…but really, the question already is on the horizon: is there, or rather, where and when is there a point when I either will not longer “keep” any chickens, or…start “culling” killing – the surplus roosters for food?

The old hen issue:

A hens get older, they lay fewer and fewer eggs…ok, but towards the very end, before they get some kind of infection or tumor – would it be better to “harvest” them? In a couple of years, a decision will need to be made….but it does raise this issue: to kill or not to kill while they are old but still healthy? ( harvesting, sending to freezer camp, culling – as just other words for killing in most cases). And how is it best done, with the least amount of stress to them?

Yes, the eggs are more tasty as well as nutritious from chickens that are free ranged in a huge garden-pasture. In addition, they are fed soy free organic feed. But for me, the improved freshness and general egg quality are secondary. Seeing these hens out foraging is beautiful to me. I feels like the right thing to do. And I don’t force-molt them or use lights in the winter to make them lay more eggs, and if they go broody, they get some eggs to sit on.

Yes, those kinds of eggs DO cost more than the mass produced eggs from the battery hens, cage free or no not….and after keeping chickens for a couple of years, I know why. In fact, I am spending some of my life savings on it. …and I do know – living with integrity is not compatible with doing things as usual. These days, if it is cheap, especially very cheap, be it food or clothing or anything, it is based on abuse, either of animals or humans, including children, or the environment. If people had to pay what it actually costs, they …ok, most, simply would not…or, certain items would be special occasion foods.

I no longer wish to contribute to commercial animal keeping because of the atrocities and violence and destruction done to the animals and the environment.  In the case of where my eggs are coming from, that is possible….and meat and fish I no longer eat.

It is the principle, the integrity that matters to me: once you know, once you feel, once you really see what is done to animals raised for human consumption – maybe you too don’t want to keep supporting a system what is so so incredibly abusive…..and luckily, you don’t have to either…but it’ll cost ya. There is no free lunch here either.

One could argue: in eating commercial eggs consciously, one honors the life of those hens…..sure – and, you are still supporting the system. I am not saying don’t do it like that…but this is a post of why I am doing this chicken keeping thing.

If medically you don’t need to eat meat, why do you?

I would love to do art – but it is not more important to me than working on a chicken garden. I would love to have this very beautiful aesthetically pleasing chicken coop – rather than the DIY-reuse- every-bit-of-wood-you-can-find-put-together … rustic at best chicken house….maybe some day.

I do like my DIY feed storage though, even if it is rustic, here a picture with it almost done.

July 2015 - feed storage, not quite done
July 2015 – feed storage, not quite done

There are plans of doing some paintings for the coop, but the list of things to do that are basic necessity is still way too long…but never is this out of my mind: how I can I make this not only healthy and functional, but  beautiful and cost effective too – and without killing animals before they have lived out their lives?

It is still a work and experiment in progress, and I am not growing much chicken food at the land yet, for a little more self sufficiency and cost saving, still working on the coops.

If I personally were capable of living off water and the energy of the sun directly, I would. Principally, it ought to be possible.

In the meantime – to all work buddies out there,  does anyone wish to support this chicken garden project by sponsoring a chicken? 🙂 – hen OR rooster? Here is just one of them, a young girl not yet laying – as her sponsor, you’d get to name her 🙂 – and when you visit, you be sure to get garden eggs, even in winter, even if it means i don’t eat eggs that day….and no worries, many more chickens are available for sponsorship!

This one here gave me a heartache the other day by not showing up at roost-time…vanished without a trace, I looked everywhere…but then, there she was the next morning…I still have no idea what happened…and obviously I didn’t look “everywhere” 🙂

cw-20150902_9668

Update – see here, about 1 year later: a little more clarity in the dark side of backyard chicken-keeping

 

 

general chicken management

Natural – Truth in Advertising

Once I starting keeping chickens, I took a closer look at the kind of eggs that were sold in the stores. The ones we were buying were labelled “organic” – but what the heck did that mean for the chickens?

Looking at the egg cartons in stores, you’ll find terms like farm fresh, nutritious, omega 3 enhanced, natural, happy chickens, organic, free range, cage free, pastured, humane, animal welfare approved, pretty family farm pictures, – no one ever says anything like industrial, conventional, cage hens, may contain salmonella, egg yolk contains soy, fed GMO corn, product contains antibiotics, inferior eggs, may contain traces of pesticides.

I found the whole thing confusing myself even for over a year after getting my own eggs from the garden-chicks, so really, they got us wrapped…and to this day I get emotionally fooled when I read “All Natural” on food. That is the biggest lie of all – you won’t believe the things “natural” foodstuffs can contain – and get THIS: you do NOT even have the right to KNOW what is in it. Let that sink in for a bit. It is just that “natural” STILL sounds like something so good,  like nature made it, not dabbled with, left whole and wholesome – and in the United States, that could not be further from the truth.

One of my early home-made bread experiments

Just the other day I was in a store looking for rye bread .oh, there is was – clear and in big letters – RYE BREAD – and STILL I have to remind myself consciously that the claim is false. When I moved to the USA in the mid-eighties, I looked for bread, decent bread to buy. Coming from Germany, I was used to all kinds of freshly baked breads – real bakeries were within walking distance everywhere I lived growing up. I remember 3 main varieties: Brötchen – rolls – the likes of which I have never seen in the USA, made of wheat four, double baked rye bread – made with rye flour (it didn’t need to say pure, 100% – is was RYE bread), and mixed bread – made with a mixture of rye and wheat flour. I was looking for rye bread …and I didn’t pay much attention to the ingredients list and ended up with the “rye” bread that had those seeds in it …oh dear. That was about 25 years ago – and to this day, when I pick up packages which are labelled “Rye Bread” – the main ingredient is WHEAT.  There simply is not the same standard in food labeling here as I grew up with.

I will write a different post on what the various – and confusing, misleading, and clever terms you see on egg cartons actually mean for your eggs and the chickens.

In the meantime, just in case you are curious to find out more about just HOW WELL you are being manipulated, this here is a very powerful and eye opening  video made about The Secrets of Food Marketing, Published on May 12, 2014. Below it is a response to one of the comments that made a point of saying that they did not present a solution – I say: you really need to be willing to look at and admit that what is happening may be problematic – the only way to address a problem is to admit there is one.
We all have a choice to then do what is consistent with what we believe in, is important to us or hold dear.

I don’t mind if she is an actress, as long as what she says is true (if you do some research you will see that it’s not a lie !)

Compassion in World Farming : Hi Jake thanks for your reply. Please note that this video was never actually intended to offer the solution to factory farming – we simply wanted to grab people’s attention to encourage them to think about how they eat, and ways in which they can help stop suffering.
Compassion in World Farming’s aim is to end factory farming for the betterment of animal welfare, people’s health and the planet, and exposing the industry in ways such as this are vital to this work. Our work has changed laws which has led to the improvement of conditions for farm animals and better quality food for humans. We campaign for better conditions, and also work with the food industry to improve animal welfare within supply chains: www.compassioninfoodbusiness.com
We have a programme of Good Farm Animal Welfare Awards which are currently set to benefit 287 million animals.

Research has actually shown that intensive farming is incredibly wasteful and cannot be sustained. 87% of the calories that factory farmed animals consume are wasted (for every 100 calories of animal feed, made of soya and other cereals that humans can eat, rather than grass which we cannot, 13 calories of meat/dairy are produced).

Feeding the planet should not come at the expense of animal welfare, human health or the environment – all of which you can read more about on our website: www.ciwf.org. The truth is that we won’t be able to continue our current farming methods if we want to feed the planet. For a start, we need to reduce our consumption of animal products, and increase the standard of those products. I think you might find our research materials interesting, including our Manifesto for a Caring Food Policy, which starts by discussing problems of hunger and obesity and the disproportionate allocation of food across the world: http://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/5804168/Down_to_earth_manifesto_for_a_caring_food_policy.pdf. There is a wide range of research here which goes into further detail on our solutions-based approach to ending factory farming for animals, people and the planet: http://www.ciwf.org.uk/research/food/

“You got to examine your life – and you got to do it now, before you die” – E.J. Gold

general chicken management

Employment benefits for chickens?

Hello. Since not all who come across this webpage are homesteaders or urban chicken keepers, I’d like to start with a question or 2: Have you EVER really seen a chicken lay an egg? Have you ever seen a woman give birth? ok …

IF you had ever seen a chicken give birth …ehh…lay an egg – you would KNOW it generally is HARD WORK, takes sometimes a very long time, sometimes tears something, there is a lot of panting and pushing, sometimes makes the hen let out a yelp, sometimes there is blood – and – doing it almost every day, week after week – is demanding on their bodies. And sometimes an egg gets stuck and unless remedied in time – the hen dies.

Before getting chickens myself, I had not realized that in egg production the word “labor” really does apply. Then I got chickens of my own and saw it with my own eyes. Those girls really do work very hard indeed. I just always thought – birds lay eggs, so it is natural, meaning easy, right?…except for the “overbred” part, as “normal” chickens only lay between 10 and 20 eggs per year, rather than 250- 320 per year.

I decided to “keep” our own chickens mainly for animal welfare reasons, no longer being able or willing to support the conditions millions of hens are forced to live under in the commercial chicken keeping industry. In addition, the eggs of those slave laborers, bless them all, are nutritionally inferior and the environmental impact of those operations are sometimes downright destructive. (links to follow when those posts have been written)

So recently, fertilized eggs in hand, I  am looking at getting more chickens a bit as if offering an employment. For as yet not developed eggs, I say something like this:

“Chicken spirits, we would like some eggs for our nutrition. In exchange for your product and labor, I am offering a chance for a life on earth as a chicken in our garden. This includes benefits such as bathing, sun bathing, scratching and pecking in the grasses and soil for worms and bugs. I offer a predator-safe place to sleep at night, daily free range on pasture  with greens  and organic soy free food, deep shade during the summer.Other benefits include: being seen, hearing the 4 lines, songs, love, preening and cuddling if desired and management of any overly interested and persistent roosters :).

This will last for  however long you can do any work…..at which point you may or may not be serving for someone as nutrition. This will depend on your general demeanor as well as your willingness to also reliably hatch chicks and on the circumstances of those you serve.

There will be no fake free range in overcrowded conditions, no de-beaking at birth and your hatched baby brothers will get a chance to experience life rather than being chopped up or suffocated at birth.

On this earth, we all have to face death one way or another and it is part of the deal for you too. Yours will likely be via cone and with prayers and gratitude. Some of you roosters will be going to the feedstore – with prayers for a good life. If that is not acceptable – please don’t come here to this location to incarnate and work.

That is the best I can do.

And below is a question for you, dear reader, and put I this photo together for you ….

If you are not vegan, you probably still eat eggs, no?

Where would you rather have YOUR eggs come from? If you care about animal welfare – please consider supporting your local farmers and chicken keepers who allow chickens a life where they can express their chicken-ness. Think globally, grow spiritually –  buy locally and resourced. Is it more expensive – yes, and considering, if you pay taxes, some of which go to the industry, you even pay more indirectly. And don’t be fooled by the marketing terms on the egg cartons.

I vote for better employment conditions everywhere.

Of course – pet chickens are kept for other reasons, but these chickens come here for a certain type of work.

🙂 I think our chickens have a pretty darn good job with great employment benefits.

 

 

 

 

chickens and art, spiritual dimension of life with chickens

Three little blue chicks

Seeing your little lifeless body on the coop floor, your mama still
clucking to you – is a sight I won’t forget in this life.
It will not always hurt like this. I told your mama that all her
babies are gone now – and I am so sorry. Little one, you were
beautiful and  I was so looking forward to your being with us here.
Sometimes – you don’t get to sing your song for very long.
Feeling heartbroken for the little one who died today.
A few unfortunate circumstances, and misguided preferences – makes it all worse.

You were seen and loved – and after what happened to your 2 siblings – you
were also afraid. …as if you knew – so very strange. I am so
sorry.

Life – Life – how it bursts forth everywhere in all kinds of forms.

Attention – is what makes the crucial difference – focused attention
of someone’s eyes and heart –  making another life-form seen, and loved.
Today there is sorrow that life, this grand life that bursts forth in
abundance everywhere – will not shine through you any more. The song
of your lives was short – sweet little blue chicks – and this is another
reminder – that nothing but living and being you – nothing but being
your song right now is gonna ever be exactly  like that – nothing but you.

It is true, that quote – for animals and other life forms here too, not only humans

You are irrevocably gone, a momentary blip of focus in the sea of consciousness – but seen and cherished and loved …there is something about that that seems to make it eternal.
Just that – your having been seen, adored – doing what you did.
Placing loving attention fulfills a sacred purpose of all this life being born – to be
recognized in perfection and beauty – to put attention  on anything
with adoration and love –  does something that nothing else will do
– it brings forth another level of life in life. It creates Beingness.

And last night I took to Pencil Magic in pain – “just a little chick” they say. “They” don’t know  … about all this life – connected through invisible matrix of being. Sweet little blue chicks, I can see you all there in the drawing – I even know which one of you is which. Does a drawing give some meaning –  I don’t know – but it feels right to have done it….and in the morning, I noticed there was peace in me that could not be found yesterday.

Thank you little blue chicks. Glad you got to know being under a mama’s wings.

If you like, you can learn Pencil Magic here on gorebaggtv live (and archives), and also review lessons here on the Tools for Transformation -> Art ->Pencil Magic ->  Lessons section

general chicken management

Let’s get some chickens

My “Box”, which was big enough as a brooder for 25 chickens for 1 week. It has served as rooster holder, hospital, de-brooding container, and favorite nest box since then.

You mentioned you wanted some chickens. I think that is great – you’ll love them – and even though it might look like that there is a lot to consider, it is pretty easy – and fun. But then, I love chickens – all birds – and doing something you love makes everything easier.

A little clarity and intention put in ahead of time will really pay off later.

You’ll need a safe coop, and outside run, feed and chickens – I admire those cute coops for the suburban chicken keeper – who have something like 3-5 chickens …, but that just wasn’t gonna work for the number of chickens I was planning on…so we have a very rustic coop make with 1x2x, 2x2x, 4 posts, plywood and hardware-cloth.

I believe in providing chickens an as natural environment as possible. To keep them healthy and resilient, providing good nutrition and enough space are crucial – as are genetics and gentle up-bringing. Flapping your arms or wearing wavy clothes or walking fast – will set of their flight response – and if you ‘d like those amazing interactions – walk like in chicken tai-chi and don’t wear red colored shirts when you got them used to seeing you in black and green. If you are good at building things – that can come in real handy when keeping more than just 2 or 3 hens ….:)

Treats Please?

I got my chicks (25 in May and another 25 in September) from a preservation hatchery and they were non sexed, meaning, they didn’t magically get rid of the males for me. My chicks are not vaccinated and I exposed them to the local dirt from the day after I got them to build up they immunity against the local coccidia.  They get organic feed, first chick starter, then after 18 weeks, layer feed, kitchen scraps and free range stuff.  Now that we have babies again, who can get kidney damage from eating the high calcium layer feed, they all get chick starter with the layers having access to egg shells and crushed oyster shell.

Here are some questions you may want to ask yourself before you get chickens. This only because – it just works out better later on. If you really just want 3 or 4 hens…it is real easy.

Do you care about the animal welfare side of keeping chickens?

The answer to that will play a role in where you get your chickens from and what kinds of breeds are acceptable to you. Remember, if you want egg layers, that means the breed does not have enough meat on them to make the males useful and so they usually are gotten rid of at birth. I did not want to do that, but that is the only option many folks have who live in the city where roosters are not allowed. Feed-stores have the most commonly used breeds from the commercial hatcheries.

What do you want your chickens for? 

Some of my first eggs

Do you want eggs? meat?  eggs and meat? health? pets? Entertainment and therapy are a side effect of any chickens you share your life with 🙂 The delight they can bring is priceless. Depending on your answer as to what you want chickens for, the chicken breed you want is different. (Egg color was not important to me, even though it would be nice if some eggs were green or blue….)

(One word ahead of time – I will not discuss the meat chickens, which are bred to weight the equivalent of about 250 lbs in a 2 year old human. No matter what kind of a free range life you are giving them, I consider it fundamentally animal abuse and can’t help you there, so you’re on your own on that one.)

If you want chickens for meat only and can deal with getting some eggs, choose a dual purpose breed. You will need to kill them and dress them – I found that I am not willing to do the killing part except should it be necessary at some point to relieve suffering …. and regret having gotten dual purpose birds (egg layers with a decent weight – but they eat more – and unless you want them for meat also, it is a waste as it does make a difference in your feed cost). If you have dogs and can stomach the killing, the roosters will make good food.

Egg laying breeds are usually considered “light” chickens. The animal welfare standard is no more than 280 eggs per laying cycle…which to me means – all year except during molting, that is almost an egg a day when they are laying. I am ok with 4-6 eggs per week from a hen, which is less – because: I have seen how they labor – and don’t want slave labor. Laying an egg IS hard on them – and they do deserve to be treated as best you can.

So, how many eggs do you want each day? – get twice as many chickens – if you have extra eggs in the spring and early summer, sell them at work or give them to friends.

Keep in mind that during molting, when they are broody or raising chicks they lay no eggs. Molting (change of feathers) happens usually in the fall after maturity, in other words, my chickens from May and September 2012 molted in  fall 2013 – with very little egg production from the flock – except from the ones that got hatched in 2013. Laying also goes way down in winters, and to some degree, during heat spells.

So, if you reliably aim for say 5 eggs a day – you will need about 8-10 hens…but in the spring, there will be days and even weeks you will get 8-10 eggs a day.

Do you want a rooster?

If you are agriculturally zoned, having a rooster is fun – they protect their flock, are beautiful, mine are all non-aggressive – and – they will want to mate, and you might have baby chicks one day. Mating however can be hard on the hens if there are only 3 or 4 around because – since they lay eggs almost all year long and hence mating goes on any time they are laying, their backs can loose all the feathers from being mounted. Better to have a 1:10 ratio – and don’t get a huge rooster and small hens  = hard on the girls. Do it the opposite: smallish rooster with larger hens.

I LOVE my roosters – I had 32 the first year :)but we  won’t even go into that. Rooster to rooster aggression in the breeds I have was largely a space issue, but mostly non-existent. I have 4 roosters now and  – I can’t really keep any more….only because it is hard on the hens and – they eat more because they are bigger – it adds up. The only reason to keep more than 1 or 2 roosters is if you want to actually breed purebred chickens.

What do I do with the chicks that hatch each year that turn out to be roosters? They will go to the feed-store at some point. (I have spend hundreds of dollars re-homing some of my first flock (32 roos in all) – and that just is not an option, not that all did find a home.  It helps if you have specialty purebred breeds if you want them to find a home…rather than a home with being dinner at some point.

SPACE

Ideally, you will have 4 sq feet per bird in the coop and 10 sq feet in the run, if that is all they have. My coop was made for 25 bird, now I have 33 in it – and it really would be too small if they had to stay in there all day…but they range all day unless I keep them in the run for some special reason. Part of the run has a simple roof on it (DIY  with 1x2s and plastic  for the rainy season).

For someone who only wants 2 or 3 birds, they have these cute little coops you can get. I needed a coop for 25 layers to start with, but ultimately about 40….so those cute coops really never were an option …

If you have racoons, weasels, rodents, foxes, dogs – and you still want to sleep well at night after getting chickens MAKE YOUR COOP PREDATOR PROOF – using 1/4 inch hardware cloth and yes, if there are spaces you can put your thumb through …a rodent can get in. A bird net covered run is also very good for peace of mind as well as the life of chickens. My birds free range during the day … and I never lost one yet – only the ones that were roosting outside at night – NOT inside the coop – several were gotten – always in the early morning, Blacky was one of them …I still miss him ….

Blacky

COOP FLOOR: I LOVE deep litter flooring, would use 2 rows of cement cinder blocks in ground under the walls and put the wood on that. Mine didn’t have that and I had to install a digger guard all around the coop and a foot deep – 18 inches deep would be better.

Good VENTILATION is a must if you want to not have frostbite on the combs in the winter….and also helps in the summer.

If I had to do it over, I would have a bigger coop with inside walls (framed chicken wire works) and removable doors which would allow me to subdivide into 3 parts easily, each with a pop door to the outside.

Could be you want to keep an extra rooster, breed specific hens, or give mamas and chicks a safe place.

You will need some sort of box for a hospital. A dog crate will do.

Weather considerations: For warm/hot climates I recommend to choose heat tolerant chickens. They love to hang out in deep shade during the hot part of the day, when it is best to leave them alone. The really benefit from several sources of cool water near their favorite hang out places.

Cold: unless the coop is not well ventilated, they should be ok in warmer climates like California. Ventilation is so important because if the air gets too humid (breath) and it is freezing in the coop and the humidity settles on the combs…they will freeze …dry air is ok.

For the run outside, chicken wire works well to create subdivisions or to create protected garden areas. In a panic, they will fly over it, but otherwise, they respect the fencing.

The deep litter (all the leaves and chicken poop) gets used in the garden.

Again,  a little clarity and intention put in ahead of time will really pay off later.

I am planning to get more chickens next year from the hatchery, Sandhill preservation. …but then, maybe I’ll just let them hatch some more ….

Considering: Islandic chickens (very very hardy, good foragers and breed in need of conservation – I already have the coop for them) and Egyptian Fayoumis: good foragers, great mothers IF they go broody, naturally immune to Marek’s, good layers and the roosters are very very good watchers.

Why would I probably  not get more buttercups for now, while I still have the bigger Buff catakanas: Because they are so so sweet …and smallish – and ALL the roosters seem to like them best …it is too hard on them unless you only have other similarly sized breeds and only 1 or 2 roosters…Like having only buttercups and Fayoumis would have worked.

I love the blue Andalusians – they are fun – especially if the markings are good and you will let them have babies. They are a rare breed, but I like  the Fayoumis better – very alert and agile but more laid back in a way. And I find I am ok with smaller chickens …:) There are only 2 Fayoumis in the flock now …and I would like to breed immunity to Marek’s into my flock, and they are immune. Ultimately I would like to create a local breed, heat tolerant egg-layers who forage well, are immune to Marek’s, generally healthy with a friendly, laid back temperament while good watchers for predators.

So anyway, that is the plan for next year …I will need to finish another coop addition before then however 🙂

The joy and relaxation chickens provide – is – priceless 🙂

Mama with her” babies” – as well as her older “adopted” son …:)

 

 

 

 

general chicken management, roosters

Fighting roosters in the homestead flock

A little experience and some more tips and insights on multiple rooster management in the flock.

Some of you may remember Cutie-Pie and Lucky, 2 of many  hen-hatched “roolings”  in 2013. Of all the little roos from that summer, I still have 4, 3 of whom are destined to go to the feed-store like their brothers,  as soon as the weather gets better. After some observation, a coincidence and some sentimental input, I decided a while back to keep Lucky, one of the mixed breed roos (Andalusian dad and Buff Catalana mom), and he has been with the main flock at night, and spends most of his days in a special hangout.

Lucky and Cutie-Pie

All 4 remaining cockerels had been doing fine with the hens, pullets and my 3 remaining roos from 2012 in a flock of 39 total. However, the youngens became very very interested in the girls, and so I separated out the ones I was not going to keep.

If you have multiple roosters – it is highly advisable to have the option of separating them if needed. That need can arise suddenly.

Moving a group of roosters out to separate quarters – prompts them to establish a new pecking order and territorial claims – or so it has been my observation.

It is good to keep in mind that  “fighting” means –  establishing pecking order. In healthy roos, once one of them starts running and is able to keep a distance, the fighting stops. Any rooster that turns out to have the habit to pursue and pursue even after the other roo has given up – is built in such a way that his genes will not be allowed to continue in my domestic flock.

Once you separate out roosters from the flock – they WILL  re-establish pecking order if you put them back together.

Last evening, Cutie-pie, a beautiful spunky Blue Andalusian, so far content in his enclosure, really wanted to join the flock in the main coop, and I decided to give him a try with the rest of the flock today – and if all went well, I would let him join the main coop in the evening. One time he had gotten out by accident and was fine, with Lucky being daytime separated for hen protection.

So this morning I let Cutie-Pie join the flock and found out: He and Lucky are very evenly matched young roos who had some things to work out. I wish I had a camera when they first started “fighting” because it was an amazing dance performance – without getting tough or too serious, – they got under each other, over and sometimes went front to front. Cutie-Pie, the Andalusian,  eventually did (sort of) start running, and Lucky even gracefully stopped chasing, but when they came close to each other again, they’d start over. Cutie Pie hadn’t really conceded. So here is another point to remember:

When 2 cocks, or, as we politely say in the United States – roos 🙂 are evenly matched, they tend to –  keep on fighting….

Lucky is bigger, and at this point is second only to the main ruler of the flock, but Cutie-Pie is high in spirit. I was not gonna wait till the end – when and whatever it might have been – because I already knew that I was keeping Lucky in the long run.

So Lucky went into his daytime pen, Cutie-Pie was given a chance to roam and be out another day with the flock, but, as you can see in the image, they were still holding each others attention. So in his generous pen with run Cutie-Pie went too. I threw them all some grains and they were all happy picking and scratching. Eventually they would get used to each other and would work it out …but….not without some comb and wattle damage.

I do know from past experience that roos go through phases and, at least with my roos (and I had 32 last year)  – this too would pass, but again, I know they will go soon anyway.

Just a quick word on the natural chicken keeping and roosters: In true nature, the males don’t get killed at birth  and they also are not locked up separatly from a main flock. however, they do have a pecking order, they DO have a way to get out of the way (space) and, maybe most importantly – for MOST of the time during a year, the hens are not laying eggs, so there is not much reason to fight. Have you ever seen a rooster chase a molting or non fertile hen? At least mine don’t. So  apart from aggressive breeds and individual roosters, we have the inherently UN-natural situation of females who lay eggs most of the year – something to fight about ….

None of my roosters are aggressive to people – and I find what I wrote last year on the topic on how to deal with roosters, is still true.

Do roos calm down – oh ya, my 3 main roos are nothing like last year. They surely seem to go through adolescent hormone spikes and have a lot of energy then :).

general chicken management

How much does it cost to ship a chicken?

He went to a home in Texas

Last year I ran into trouble because a neighbor complained about the crowing with several visits from animal control – even though we life in a fully agriculturally zoned area. Since I am renting,  it was suggested to get rid of all but 2 roosters. I could not bring myself to get those roosters killed and tried to find homes for them – not an easy thing as became obvious. I was successful with several of them. Much was learned in all of that, not the least about the actual cost of shipping roosters via airmail  – here is a blog-post about it – it is on the blog site I had before this website – here is the  link -> How much does it cost to ship chickens?

spiritual dimension of life with chickens

The Hoʻoponopono prayer – a practial test

This may not – at first glance, have anything to do with chicken-keeping  but it is very related to the practice I described previously which was, at least in part – inspired by my experiences and realizations during chicken keeping. This is pretty much transferred from a personal blog post – so please google-folks and robots, don’t punish me – it is my own stuff – just trying to reach chicken lovers too or anyone concerned with the way things are going for the natural world on the earth. Thank you.

During the course of my work with animals in recent years and expanding to plants, and on the basis of all the other things I had learned in my life, I had come to a place where it seemed to not make sense to have to kill anything to sustain my body. Around that time, I came across the description of sun-gazing – and BOOM – I started that week…and very quickly realized that I would never be able to complete this if certain emotional and mental states persisted, never mind how “right” I felt. This is when I remembered the modern Hoʻoponopono (ho-o-pono-pono) prayer, its origin being an ancient Hawaiian practice.

When do some google-ing- you will eventually  find the story about the psychiatrist and the modern form of this practice/prayer and what happened to the psych ward full of crazy people. When you read the story – and I take it as true – you will be floored.
I had dabbled in using the prayer way back sometime, but the level of urgency and necessity, the relentless burning to BE, to walk this earth in a way to not cause any unnecessary harm to any sentient creature – my love for animals and plants – had me face it for real.
The thing about this prayer is: YOU are ultimately responsible – not just for your personal individual self actions, but all of it.
The adaptation of the practice is this prayer,  4 little phrases – to be said in any order – with the person or group of people in mind you need to make things right with – within your-self.

I love you.
I am sorry.
(Please ) Forgive me.
Thank you.

Seeing all others as part of my own Self … is what enabled me to do it with someone whose actions had caused me great pain. It does not make the actions right …but that is, frankly, irrelevant in this process. It is about  YOUR inner state – and the knowing, that unless that changes – nothing in the outer will change. I should say that it took a mere days for the effect to manifest. It is still a process, yes, but a big obstacle has been left behind. I don’t think it will turn me into a very patient person any time soon …but I am liking this effect of the prayer.

First snow

I have since then, on occasion, put groups of people there who do those abominable things to animals, plants and the environment that is killing our very mother –  earth – who, like the sun, is also a Being.

I do work with non-physical guides too, but this prayer – and to be able to say it for real – feeling in your heart –  is a test of your spiritual practice.

An interesting observation is: when I first stated it, I kept wanting to say: I forgive you …but no –  is goes: Forgive me ….when you feel like YOU have been wronged. I know it makes no sense ….and you won’t ever know that it does – unless you try. …and when you discover why – that is another step on your path.

Much Love

Dokini

general chicken management, roosters

How to deal with roosters

How to deal with roosters

This is a bit lengthy and originated from a conversation over the internet. (I first wrote it for the blogspot blog, but since the surveillance revelation, I am moving stuff to a website). This article does contain examples for certain behaviors of some of my roosters. If you plan to raise roosters – you might find it helpful. (at the time of this transfer, we are another 4 months out – and still no problems with roosters.)

When dealing with roosters, a lot has been written about rooster to rooster aggression and rooster to human aggression. This post is more focused on  the rooster to human relationship. I wanted my roosters friendly towards me at all times – at the very least, I did not want to look over my shoulder walking in chickenland.
Given my current experience, if you have enough space and females, and tolerant neighbors, you can keep a LOT of roosters without much if any trouble.

Rooster behavior varies with breed/genetics, age, season, absence or presence of females, food supply, living space and conditions, time of day,  flock dynamic and how they are treated.

I tip ahead of time: figure 1 rooster per 7-12 hens – if you have several more roosters, you might want to consider a rooster pen with a separate pop door to a rooster area – no later that 3 1/2 months. Some roos mature early, some only a few months later. It is not that the roosters are a problem with you or each other – it is difficult on the hens to have so many on them, especially as the pullets don’t mature all on the same day and the few that mature early have to bear them all. If you raise dual purpose chickens and have straight runs – separate the roos out at 2 months – or earlier if you can tell.

I think roosters are killed for space, noise and because they do not lay eggs and cost money to feed and not all of them are needed to raise chicks or for flock protection, so they can be food. They need not be killed for aggression, but that takes a certain way to raise them.

Jumping ahead:

There are 2 ways to see ourselves with roosters that I find acceptable to me and work with because it means never to fight with them or hurt them:

Both ways do require flock/rooster awareness and observation.

1 – we are humans and not chickens, let alone  roosters that need to fight and they learn to see us as a benign presence. We don’t need to fight them because we don’t antagonize them or treat them as roosters competitors – but give them the respect and space that a rooster needs – and walking in “chicken Tai-Chi”.
2 – we need to be like top roosters to them – but – we don’t have to accomplish that by fighting them…but at the first sign of them trying to assert dominance, we are either steady, ie just stay put – or ward them off with a step or two towards them. Some folks use a stick as an extended arm. We keep them at a distance and don’t try to make them pets. Also, isolation can be tried. They tend to be much more demure upon re-rentering a flock after a day or 2 in a cage or crate. Picking them up and releasing them when calm is another way to getting them used to us not being a threat.

Since I also wanted friendly roosters who also come to me for treats …. this was going to be a balance game.

In  9 months I raised 32 roos of 6 different breeds (Sicilian buttercups, Egyptian Fayoumi, Blue Andalusian, Buff Catalana and Buff Minorca, Golden Polish) and 21 hens in a pretty small area – …and here are some things regarding behavior I have learned so far (no experience yet with broody hens, I hear they get pretty feisty and their peck hurts a lot).

General things to remember about chickens and roosters – based on observation and experience and because it has worked very well. All my roosters turned out friendly and all come for treats.

0 – chickens are amazing and can open your heart – AND – always remember, they are chickens and will act according to their programming and depending on genetics, season, temperament, hormones and circumstances …there can be surprises….never take it personally.
1 – beaks and feet – as weather gets warm, I like to wear just tank tops and sandals …but …when in the chicken world…that does not work for my skin because their little feet are no longer soft baby feet. Even them innocently flying on my bare shoulders I have gotten scratched bloody and still have the scars from that. Also, I wear a cap when I spend time with them at all, especially if I sit or crouch …because them landing on my head …hurts like hell since they got bigger than the little peeps they were. -> be aware of their feet on your skin. Chickens have a lot of sharpness in their beaks ..your eyes are NOT safe around them …be aware. Gums are not as critical, but it DOES hurt when they go for your teeth.
2 – bending down, sitting or being in a crouched position appears to be an invitation to fly on you …no matter what the intention.
3 – better to not show bare skin on lower legs unless you can say you know all your roosters so well that they would NEVER try to hit you ….I don’t think I can ever be that sure …..mating season is just starting and who knows what will happen this year and with this combination of birds.
4 – talking to the rooster now: no matter how friendly things get, you are a chicken – and/or rooster and hormones can make you act weird and a little out of control. I shall never forget that. (see stories below). Talking to some pullets:  If you are hungry and looking for treats – your peck can draw blood (they have not yet with me …but I have no doubt they could) Seeing teeth seems to be a MAJOR invitation to try to go for them with results in my lips or gums experiencing some searing pain ….that I have experienced.
5 – treats will go a LOOOONG way to friendly relations (which is what I want) with hens and roos. To a point. And treats do not have to be hand-fed. You can throw them.
6 – I am unwilling to have to look over my shoulder when entering any area that is inhabited by chickens.
If there is a problem, you (chicken) have about 2 – 3 weeks to change before I make arrangements for you to be someone’s dinner, and I tell you so. I give you time because I know hormones seem to spike and you have seem trouble with your behavior.
Me, I will do whatever I know so the behavior that is unacceptable stops….I won’t antagonize you and give you more space, might pick you up or chase you back a few steps.
If we can’t live together and if I can’t find a home – I will arrange for you a death that is as humane as possible. (cone, bleeding out without cutting windpipe in our case)
7 – I want my roos to come for treats – and I want them to respect me at all times. – so i offered treats from day 1, I always move in what I now call “Chicken tai-chi” Chickens see twice as fast compared to us. Even walking normally is fast to them. Slow down!!!!!!!!.
8 – When I see you (roo of any age) doing that “shoulder- wing thing”, I know it is not a dance for me – I might give you more space, stay put or sometimes I will back away, but I will never get angry. I know giving you treats in your face at that time works for some of you, but not all of you all the time. So if you don’t stop …I will move towards you if you start following me with intent to chase or worse after I give you some space …and might point my finger at you, say eh-eh-eh e – in a low growly voice…and might keep going towards you until you back off. If needed, you will be chased.
9 – to the roos: if you come AT me as if you owned the place a second time …I stand my ground, be tall and point my arm and finger in your direction. I am prepared with my bamboo stick and, wearing proper footwear, step towards you …and if you actually jump me a second time ….I will start chasing you …one step at a time but across the field if needed. If I need to, I will touch your fluffy butt …and I know you will jump each time and back of because you don’t like that.
I use a stick as my extended arm.
10 – to the roos: I will never feed you treats before I have thrown some to the hens. (unless of course there are only roos around)
11 – if I catch you treating others in a way not acceptable, I will pick you up from them and put you in a holding place – that help you cool you down.
12 – I do break up some fights or mounting of hens when it is happening right where I am. At times I just pick them off and carry them elsewhere. If I am worried about really damage to another chicken, I separate them. But no matter what, they will work things out.
13 – It seems that whoever is lowest on pecking order ….is looking for someone lower if they can…. you don’t want that to be you.
Generally: roosters are better to keep a little distance with. It is good for them to know who is in charge (you) – at the same time, when you throw treats, they can offer them to the hens and finally eat some too. Pick them up from the roost periodically and set them back down.
I think Big Boy (the sweetest rooster I will ever know in this life) is really different – but then …he too is only 9 months old and he was SOOOO friendly from day 1. I am not sure what the deal is with him.
Regarding Gully, the feisty Egyptian Fayoumi:
Gully, an Egyptian Fayoumi,  was originally with the orchard roos at 4 months when I separated my first straight run (17 roos was just too much for the 9 pullets) but kept traveling around to the mixed flock field. I never had a problems with him and thought he was the best. He was a curious smart little guy, greeting me when I came into the garden. He eventually self integrated into that mixed flock and I let him, even though they did not need any more males there. One day ..i think he was almost 6 months, I walked into the mixed flock field and I felt a thud against my leg from behind. I didn’t even know what it was, but when I looked around, there he was, Gully looking at me ……( a little shocked & disappointed was I) …but then nothing else happened for a couple of days but then I say he was following me kind of with his chest out …I used treats and that worked but he was still following me …. then he did that thing again where he hit my lower legs …well, that is when I started turning around earlier and stepped towards him, I never had to use the stick on him, …only chased him halfway across the field a couple of times and that was it. After that, he behaved like a charm the rest of the time here. But mating season had not yet started and it was too cold to sit about in the field or do weeding.
i remembered 1 thing that i don’t know how it plays into how he is is acting. At the end of september 2012, the folks here got 2 young aussies that were not very socialized. i was helping them to handle the dogs.  the property at the time was not fenced and the only “dog” yard were they could run was next to the chicken-gardenfield.
gully had figured out how he could squeeze through the fence opening in the fence that separates the chicken and the general/dog area (i had used some old horse fencing prior to getting chickens not realizing that some of the chickens would be small enough to be able to get though it …and in fact wanted to go through it.) anyway ..that fence didn’t keep gully from making his rounds.
sometime in october, one of the dogs almost got him (only by the wingtip, and no physical injury, but it was still scary) when he was in the dog yard.
so a couple of weeks later when i took the other dog there. i made sure gully was not in the dog yard. he was on the other side of the fence….before i let the dog  loose i noticed gully had gone through the fence and was charging the dog …who was as surprised as me…i did not let them fight but left with the dog. i seemed like gully would have won ….meaning the dog was stopped from advancing and might have retreated.
gully didn’t do his jumping on my leg until after that. i don’t know if or how it played a role in setting something up in a confrontational way though. even when i stand my ground with other roos if i need to, i try to never let it come to a real confrontation.  anyway, just a little piece of info.
Orchard roos adolescent behavior:
several of them, maybe all – did that wing thing with me, it is not a dance, it is trying to see who is higher in the pecking order – and is is a sign saying: hey, you are too close …I live here. If you can – give them space, back up a little and go around to where you were headed. If I had to change the water, I stand my ground and wing them right back, if needed, using my arms, make myself look big and confident, these days not waiting till it gets worse. .. If they actually follow me and come at me, which only happened twice,  I will pretend to chase them off if need be. One of them I had to chase and do the “touch your butt with the stick thing” with because he was coming at me. He jumped a few times. He was some punk, but it worked. What also works is picking them up and holding them till calm. The problem is: I’d have had to chase them for that and that sort of was beside the point then. The picking up and holding them and putting them back down works best off and onto the roost.
Misbehaving roos: 

Roosters misbehaving with the pullets or each other: I pick them up and carry them off, break up any fights happening right in front of me. Several of them spend a day in what used to be the brooder box. I would also isolate them for a day and then let them back with the flock. Usually their behavior is much better, though you can’t really keep them from working out the pecking order. This is when it helps to just not be there for a while …and also provide enough food that fighting over food need not to be the case.

The Buff Catalana roo territorial phase:

The buff catalanas, bigger than any of my other roos, where hitting adolescence at 4 months recently. Soon after, the main dude with all the roos, started going after me trying to prevent me from going into their area to feed them. He only tried that twice because I chased him right back which only took a couple of steps towards him a couple of times at which point he kept his distance…and I had to work with treats to even have him come close again – that took about 2 weeks, but he never gave me any problem again.

One of them, (I have 3 there) in the mixed flock, tried to chase me out of the coop one evening about 2 weeks ago …well, I didn’t go for that and chased him out instead …no more problems since then. Again, it does not take more than a couple of steps. They all come for treats, but generally, I do not mind them staying a bit away, be respectful of me without being fearful and they are always the last to get treats, but they do get them and come for them. They are more cautious of the other roo in their group than me.
Roosters are males and they are gonna do what roosters do.

Another thing I do is to go into the coop and touch them while roosting, mostly because most of them some day I need to pick up and put into a crate to get brought to they place of culling and I don’t want them to get all freaked out. I have only recently started to pick the chickens up (other than when they were babies) just in case I need to treat them for some medical thing some day.

My current head roo of the flock also tried to “wing” me once, a while back – a couple of steps towards him was all he needed. Of course,, houdini as he is, iI plucked him off the roost a bunch of times to carry him to the rooster only roost, until one day I just let him stay…he has been behaving perfectly.
Secret is – always stay calm, and don’t wait for it to get worse. Either modfy your behavior to give them more space, or stand your ground, and  chase them a couple of steps or touch their butt with your little stick. I have never had to yell, really run-chase or actually hit a rooster – and I don’t ever want to. I do not want to have an actual fight, and remember, do not take it personally when your sweet roo suddenly remembers his protective duties and starts coming after you marching into “his” territory. He is just wanting to protect his flock.
Their claws really hurt bare skin, even if they just want to sit on you. Their beaks can cause pain in no time just from pecking curiosity.
Just as an example on what hormones can do:

one almost 3 months old roo was chasing a hen relentlessly one evening ….finally stopped when he was roosting. Then, the next day …whenever his feet hit the ground he hysterically ran around …he literally could not stop until went hiding under something all out of breath and freaked out, then it started all over. I finally put him in the coop on a roost …this went on for 3 days ….i even did one of those online vet things…(waste of money) to see if he had some kind of disease.

I had to hand feed him and give him water in a syringe for 3 days. Then, after 3 days, he would still run around as soon as his feet touched the ground but could make himself stop when there were other chickens pecking around….he still spent a lot of time on the roost. It took a few more days till he was all back to normal ….no problem since.
Incidentally, that night before he had this problem there also was a thunderstorm. So it might have added to his “flighty” behavior.
Anyway – I hope this helped. It has worked well for me. Even the golden polish are sweet, but unfortunately they can’t stop chasing the buttercups, especially one of them seems to be popular with EVERYONE. In any case, I am just gonna spoil them till they have to go – it is only a few more days.
More on rooster management
Since I found that isolating them seems to also help (tried that with the polish and way back once with who is now the top roos with the flock), if I were in your situation with him having jumped on me and he misbehaved towards me again and I didn’t want to get into chasing or more confrontation to ward him off, I might pick Gully up from the roost or a pullet he is topping and carry him to a box or little coop to put him by himself, give him food and water there and keep him overnight and then let him out to join the others late morning…as I call them all over to throw out food.
Also – I generally don’t let them hop on me uninvited. – and my flock – the pullets mostly though) sees a sitting position (I hand-feed treats that way) or extended/lifted arm as an invitation to fly on it or me.
As best as I can tell, there are 2 ways to see ourselves with roosters that I accept and work with because it means never to fight with them or hurt them.
Both ways do require flock/rooster awareness and observation.
1 – we are humans and not roosters and they learn to see us as a benign presence, we don’t need to fight them because we don’t antagonize them and treat them as roosters competitors – giving them the respect and space that a rooster needs – and walking in “chicken Tai-Chi”
2 – we need to be like top roosters to them – but – we don’t have to accomplish that by fighting them…but at the first sign of them trying to assert dominance, we are either steady, ie just stay put – or ward them off with a step or two towards them. Some folks use a stick as an extended arm. We keep them at a distance and don’t try to make them pets. Also, isolation can be tried. They tend to be much more demure upon re-rentering a flock after a day or 2 in a cage or crate. Picking them up and releasing them when calm is another way to getting them used to us not being a threat.
Since I also wanted friendly roosters who also come to me for treats …. this was going to be a balance game.
If the methods do not work and there is a rooster that becomes more and more aggressive – he needs to find another home, one way or another….Somehow I would take that to mean that whatever I do or did, was not working fior this particular rooster. I would not want to breed him with those characteristics – unless I had huge acreage where he was  truly needed  him to protect his flock.
Before I ever go any chickens, got my first impression on how to deal with roosters from reading Harvey Ussery’s book: The Small Scale Poultry Flock. Best single book on chicken keeping I can imagine, though I have much to learn on culling if I really wanted to breed chickens. (I don’t want to kill those beautiful birds, so …).
What I took from him in regards to rooster management was
1 – You are not a chicken. You are not a rooster. You have other options. You do not need to fight.
2 – Respect the birds and the space they live in and work with it – and with them, not against them.
3 – treats go a long way for amicable relations with your roosters. It confuses them ..no rooster would do that to another rooster that would threaten him.
4 – Don’t have pet roosters
5 – Be aware of what your birds are doing.
This looked like this in my situation:

My orchard roos were hanging out in the back by the orchard (as opposed to the front of the coop garden field area. When I had to pass by the area to another part of the garden, I noticed a couple of them would start approaching and doing that “wing thing” – I would just give them a little more space and be on my way and all was well.

When I came in with the bag of kitchen scraps – they might start the same way, but then, hearing my chicky ckicky and seeing me emptying the bag …they soon forgot about their territoriality and came closer looking for titbits.
The water station was in the middle of their space and I would have to enter it (because I usually didn’t think of filling up the water before I let them out..:) i’d say my “it’s okaaayyy chicky”… so when they came close to me doing “the wing thing”, I would stay put or do my chickchikchik …and throw them or hand-feed them some choice treats and all was well. I just never had a problem and over time …they didn’t seem to mind my doing what I had to do there.
Maybe it was because they got used to it – maybe it really is a challenge for them when their hormones spike?? Maybe I saw be as a on threat?

On the coop side this meant: I get the eggs after the hens leave and the roosters are not around.

I wait to dump new leaves onto the coop floor when they are out in the field because big bags, especially the black ones, FREAKS THEM OUT, even if I walk very slowly, they are afraid. Once I showed up with a big black bag at the coop door and most of the buffs where still there …they totally freaked and would not come near me for a day. So since the kitchen scraps usually show up in white bags…i now use white if I can or make sure they are elsewhere if I have a big black bag with leaves. This is what I mean by respect their space. I make some adjustment and all is well.

 

So the respect, giving them space & treats worked well in general.

But then there was Gully who hit my lower leg one day when I was walking into the garden field not paying any attention to them. Mind you, I had just gone onto the field not paying attention to them at all, just going where I wanted to go. One of the orchard roos made his territory in a walkway area that I needed to traverse to get to the buff roos, and later a couple of those buff cockerels who had thought they established their ruler-ship around their roost box/coop daring me and were not just doing the wing thing but were daring me a little more and the golden polish who started winging me.

I think eventually respect and treats might have worked, but I sort of might have inadvertently antagonized him with the dog incident. I did some more reading and a lot of folks said: make sure you are to top rooster …hm. Those folks also were all recommending to leave space between you and any roosters and not have them be anything like pets. So I chased him back a couple of times, that worked.
Of the other methods I chose to  – get a stick as the arm extension to pat their fluffy butt and don’t be a pushover….chase them If needed.
Again, doing that, there is no need to fight them ….and – always be vigilant.
So that is what I did without being angry, aggressive and very controlled just to make it clear that some behavior would not be tolerated.
That worked.Afterwards I will call the flock over and trow some treats.

PICKING THEM UP – without hurting them. I also got into the habit of picking them up off hens that complained if I was right there. One of them, who got himself into the coop over and over from the rooster side  – I picked him up and carried him back to his own roost area until one day I just just let him be with the flock …and he NEVER gave me any problem since he is with the hens and he is the head roo now. While I can’t prove anything …it seems to help with the respect thing from their side.
I also continued (and never stopped) to call the flock over and give the best treats when approaching and entering their space. It worked really well and I did not have problems.
The flock absolutely loves it when I come with a spade and start digging around in their field …in fact, they sometimes hop on the shovels (2 pullets) – they are loving the insects/worms
Keep in mind that my cockerels are now 5 – 9 months old and do not yet have spurs to speak of and mating season was yet to come.
Well, mating season is here and they are a lot more active with the pullets, but I still don’t have any problems with them. I still had 5 roos with 21 pullets, the 2 Golden Polish and 12 bachelors.

The bachelor roosters are not giving me a problem. The 2 golden polish are also not a problem …they approach me only to see if I have treats for them….but in the past, when one of them would “wing” me …I just stepped towards him till he walked away and after a few moments called him with the “chikchik” sound gave him some treats or threw them in the direction I wanted him to go.

My philosophy is to do the best for them ….even if that means they are doing the rooster thing and are not like pets. Remember, Gully went against a dog that had come into “his” area ….. and I thought: he’d give his life to defend the flock. At the same time, I did have to assert myself by catching him in his approach and not letting him jump on me. It is a fine balance because you don’t want to antagonize them and set up a rooster/rooster type situation between you and them.
I’m sure there is more to learn as they get older – or rather, there would be – because I have to get rid of them in the next couple of weeks – all but maybe 1 or 2. But that is another story.
All I can say is: the more land you have the better and if you own it,  you have a say in what happens, and just because you are zoned fully agricultural does not mean the neighbors won’t call animal control for rooster noise…even though there was not a neighbor problem before.Some were meant to be culled by someone who eats them, but in the end, that is not the reason they will be killed.

They will be killed because of noise complaints even in a fully agriculturally zoned area, NOT because any of them were aggressive.

I was able to re-home a total of  8 of my roosters to far – and time is running out for the rest of them. The re-homed roos adjusted very quickly and well to they new surroundings. One of my re-homed roos was the sweetness of my flock – he was always different – my buttercup Big Boy.
If you are thinking of re-homing roosters via shipping roosters – here is a blog on what it does cost etc.

spiritual dimension of life with chickens

Loosing another chicken to a predator

Originally published May 4, 2013 on quan yin gardens on blogspot

Fly free – as they may say

This blog is not about predators threatening the free range flock or some disease or another that takes them from us – it is about the spiritual dimension and teachings involved in loosing a chicken – as in: it is no longer part of your flock, you will never see it again – whether it is dead or went to live somewhere else – it is OUT OF YOUR life.

In the last couple of years I have lost 2 dogs and in the last few months – it was chickens. The first losses were young roos lost to predators, then there was culling, and shipping to new homes, someone coming to pick one of them up and sending more of them off for culling, then there was sweet Runti last week.

This morning,  May 3, 2013, a predator got one of the 2 remaining buff boys in the orchard. I could see from the feathers in several spots that he tried to get away. Of the buff boys, he was the sweetest and most trusting. …and again – I wonder, as I did with the others: did he suffer? – hoping he didn’t, recalling the state I was in when I had a car accident – and if it is anything like that – then there is no suffering. Certainly – it would be less scary than having to travel in a crate and be put into a cone? — but, and here is the thing – when i found what was left of him – he was already dead – he was gone. WHATEVER suffering may or may not have gone on was no more. It was done. Where did he go? Whether he went back to God or dissolved into the premordial Being – he’d be fine in either case. In fact – he would have vanished without a trace of individuality. And if he has an eternal soul – he would carry the love and his earth time with him. Either way, he’d be ok. And if he was just some mechanical scripted sentient machine – he was now kaput to the degree that he was no more in the sense that the life, the spirit that moves through all things no longer moved through him and the body was in the process for desintegrating.

So I observed my reaction, what I did with his body and was put back into the space-time when ancient homo sapiens walked the earth and their magical thinking about death, ancestors and even why cannibals eat humans, why eating the heart of an animal was magical etc.

There is a mystery.

…but back to this one: he is gone, they will all go sooner or later and all I ever can think of is: may they have a good life. This is their only life. ….and that is true for humans too: as this particular human – no matter how much we are all the same – and how similar it all is: it is none the less its only life ever….ever …. and while they are alive – they are sentient.

And after the chickens are gone, they are so totally gone …there is this realization that all they had was the moment of their life ..and all I could ever do to them was right then in their life – and only then did it make a difference to the totality of BEING itself – only in that 1 moment of the NOW can you ever go any good or harm. Now he is no more. Grief is literally pointless, even though sentient beings seem to go through it in stages.

Ok, it seems I didn’t do a real good job explaining.

There is always only the now.
If this sweet roo ceased to exist as an individual roo, having melted back into the light, it may not matter now that I love him simply because he is no more … it only mattered in the moment – that I gave him an extra treat that day …in that moment it mattered, not before or afterwards. He no longer suffers now, like Runti.
So I catch myself thinking about him, going back over things and realizing: there is no point. Holding on is pointless because he is gone, forever – and all I  ever had, all anyone ever has –  is NOW – this very moment.

Having connected with him eye to eye – what is it the connected?

Would it make a difference if they had eternal individual souls?

More and more this here is realized as truth (for the moment): I had nothing but myself with which to make the world.

It is somehow comforting to imagine that they – animals as well as humans – have a soul and that the love stays with them, or,  that karma will catch up with them one way or the other, but really, if they do not then – get this ….it is only in the moment that anything matters, that the love added to the totality of Being ………

ok fine – I can’t explain it….but these repeated losses  have been driving something home …about impermanence, uniqueness as well as non-separation of everything and the only difference we can ever make is NOW – and this feeling realization is slowly changing me.

Oh well, enough – there are many more aspects to this. Some say it does get easier with the chickens – but I wonder ….. because each one is unique ….and it’ll likely be the same. ….. and all I can hope to do is love them, give them the opportunity to let them be who they are and do my best so they don’t suffer.

Then there is that whole issue about consciousness and life forms …. including plants – but that is a whole other story as well as: it is all energy and vibration ….hm ….

So the lesson – can’t be described.

The words sound maybe something like this: Your responsibility is NOW. Your life and their life is only NOW.

Re-sharing this one, made in 2002 – it is only part 1 – I chose it because of what the teacher says: they only have this one life …. but it really is quite a remarkable teacher and class and I recommend you watch all 5 parts.